Should be the parents’ responsibility to protect their kids, not the tech companies. Also, age verification has nothing to do with “protecting the children” lol.
no shit
That’s why they’re fuckin doing it.
I hate short replies that don’t add much (so added more than agreed!) but I’ve always enjoyed being anonymous in forums, I’m quite a shy person.
Never was a jerk intentionally or anything just said my bit. But everyone possibly knowing who I was I’d probably say nothing ever. Fuck it I was private before I can be private later. But I’m old and recall before Internet when I had no (or little) interaction.
Like we all haven’t seen data breeches over the years…oh it’s the government that holds the master authentication? Fuck that shit is all. Nothing, from a person who does programming these days, like that is remotely better.
Some countries may be better but we’re all democratic right? Takes a single election till shit stops working as a safeguard, then new ones in make a different law. The whole system was not built for current tech.
Never forget who is behind this https://youtu.be/Yd7j_u-wPoM
Israelis lobbying for the end of American first amendment rights, what a shocker.
We need to find that guy and… have a little chat with him.There’s a bit of American history involving incredibly affordable concrete footwear that seems relevant here.
Linux says fuck your age verification.
Maybe that asshole shouldn’t have been supporting the fascists then…?
I am old enough to remember when the internet was run by hobbyists and enthusiasts, companies were happy to pay “to be online” it wasn’t riddled with ads and profits wasn’t the default reason to create content.
Thems were heady days
You’re kidding yourself if you think companies being online was ever about anything other than potential profit. At first it was just a way to reach a wider pool of customers. Like the yellow pages before. Then, once every company had an online presence, they started looking for new ways to monetize the connectivity.
Their statement is compatible with a profit incentive. Companies were happy to pay to be online because it was good marketing.
It’s just pining for the time before they figured out how to target marketing and sell data
Meta is pushing this so Zuck doesnt get sued for addicting kids. He can point his finger and say its the parents fault for kids seeing bad or addicting content. We are losing our rights and our privacy because a shithead like zuck doesnt want to get rightfully sued.
Amen. Been saying this a while. He knew this shit was coming so he’s was prepared with this Ace up his sleeve.
Step 1: get people addicted, monetize it to no end
Step 2: cover it up and lie about it being fine, spread misinformation of you have to
Step 3: plan a scapegoat tactic as a backup just in case. Maybe 2.
Step 4: buy out politicians who’ll support you when it’s time to take action; like “age verification” as a redirect (as if the gov has ever fine anything promptly!)
Step 5: Get the media to sort of drop coverage to get people to forget about it with other stuff, and watch the lawsuits and trials fade away into the background as there’s no more media coverage for it.
That’s the plan. It’s about control.
I’m glad someone else sees it. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills every day lately. People don’t give a single shit, will minimize the danger and do anything they can to give up their rights, time and time again.
A few of us see it, sadly too few to matter.
People in the privacy communities have known this for a while.
But because it’s slightly technical at minimum, and nuanced, and about something not immediately tied directly to people’s financial interest, the average person will never ever know, understand, or care about this.
Whats wrong with you?! Why aren’t you thinking of the children??!
already been accused/harassed on here of being pro-pedo for not being pro age-verification.
it’s always the yahoo idiot opinions that gain political traction, and rarely the common sense ones.
already been accused/harassed on here of being pro-pedo for not being pro age-verification.
it sounds like you should switch instances to one where this opinion (fact) is shared by most.
that’s not how it works. most of my harassment comes from .ml and far left instances. .ml users are especially aggressive and ignorant and eager to call you names. basically pro-authoritarian leftists.
i’m on .world. it’s the most moderate instance in my experience. db0 and blahj are also instances from which i get a lot of harassment.
sadly lemmy doesn’t let you block instances, only users or communities. so my user block list is like 500+ now.
Are you kidding? Instance blocking is almost necessary for surviving on Lemmy. Use a different client. Jesus bro, ya gotta block.
lemmy is a client. piefed is the only one i know that lets you block all users from an instance.
why lie about a group that is strongly anti-age-verification attacking you for being anti-age-verification and off endorsements from another group that is strongly pro-age-verification supporting you for your anti-age-verification opinions?
lemmy.ml isn’t a unified group. it’s individual people who think all sorts of crazy shit, that is often downright contradictory.
the only stance your instance takes is being pro marixist leninist. that has nothing to do with age-verification. if anything it’s pro-authoritarian bent would most likely have it align with mechanisms mass state control of individuals .
What is being pushed for implementation is better described as identity verification, not age verification.
I would have little issue with a solution that purely gated services on age in a secure and privacy respecting manner. This OS level garbage is not that, its creating an oligarchy run identity gate to control access to personal computing.
Thank you. Now I just wish somebody at the government level would understand this and the implications of what this entails. Like maybe mention that all their weird online fetishes could be tracked back to them. It’s like this one company doing the “verification “ would be rolling in kompromat.
it’s all by design. they don’t want the general public to put it together that these are identify tracking surveillance system, just a carefree age verification to keep kids away from the baddies 🙄
It’s never about the kids
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Agreed. The eu model is a good start, but the security of it’s implementation woefully inadequate… And I agree this MUST use post quantum cryptography.
Dox-gating (yes I just made that up lol) operating systems will result in people not updating security patches.
I like that word. I may use it later.
They want this to keep track of your children, so they can traffick them more easily. Epstein class at it again.
For once Yen and I see eye to eye.
given it’s just because it will hurt his business, but i’m still happy for some W
The good times are gone, fascism is back.
The US has always been an electoral oligarchy. It paints itself as a democratic republic to claim that it has consent of the people it governs, but the governed are given no real choices. Would you like to take a right hook or a left hook? Sorry, not getting hit wasn’t an option.
We need to start demanding our cities and states use a ranked sortition approach. Put a lottery option on a ranked voting ballot and make politicians beat the lottery if they want to claim they’re a legitimate ruling class.
But it’s in a new wrapper. Now it says “Good for humanity” on the label, still the same shit tho…
They’ve always done it “for the children”. Same wrapper.
So if you don’t accept this “age verification patch” to your OS (and you know they won’t stop with that), I assume that any attempt to connect to a website that does this check will fail and you won’t be able to connect to it, right?
Well, I am just FINE with that. If I can’t connect to a website, I will treat it like any other broken website and move on to another one. This is how the Internet routes around damage.
Totally valid idea, you just need to hope that there are enough people with you to give that decision weight or you’ll eventually run out of alternatives.
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This is an easy fix. We just make our own internet. With the usual, blackjack and hookers.
But does it have blackjack and hookers?
The death of anonymity for most people, yes. Not me though. I’m going to make my own internet. With blackjack. And hookers. And protonmail too, probably.
by any chance you wont be stranded on the Moon and need a lift?
How would one HYPOTHETICALLY get in on this at the ground floor?
I mean, the fediverse that you’re already on already kind of is the ground floor. Most of these places are not going to be affected by age verification.
But if you want to climb a few floors up to where the blackjack and hookers are probably hanging out, there are things like I2P it’s delightfully sketchy. the best kind of sketchy.
It actively divests itself from any centralized shit like SSL or DNS, it’s a raw HTTP only darknet that operates through its own peer-to-peer proxy network, totally anonymized and encrypted and segregated from any hint of open network traffic.
That makes no sense, when the age verification is being pushed to the OS and ISP levels.
Sure, you can connect to Lemmy, and not have to prove your identity to Lemmy, but Windows users will have to prove to microsoft, and also you’ll have to prove it to Verizon, or Comcast, or whomever your ISP is.
So before you even turn on your computer, you’ve already proved your identity twice.
The person you’re replying to is not a serious person. See below where they questioned whether we “need or are entitled to” a decentralized internet infrastructure…
They clearly don’t understand ISPs, and they seem to think their VPN and peer-to-peer networks would still work if the government decided to intervene by shutting down VPN and proxy servers, or if their ISP decided to throttle any connection it couldn’t fully analyze and link to a verified identity.
And then they told me that I should join the brownshirts… for… discussing the need for decentralized infrastructure? They seemed to assume I only want that so I can watch youtube and play games, which is kind of weird. But the weirdest part is that they were virtue signaling about “persecuted people” and “dissidents,” as if a decentralized infrastructure wouldn’t directly benefit those groups…
I don’t have to worry about my OS because it’s open source. Yours should be too. They can’t actually enforce age verification on an open source OS because my OS can lie, and I can use its source code to make it lie if I have to (which I won’t, because many other people will do it for me). For that matter they’ll find ways to make Windows lie too, but you still shouldn’t be using it, it’s shit.
I don’t have to worry about my ISP either because I live in a still-civilized country, but yeah, if they really lock it down at that level that’s going to be tough, you’ll probably have to identify someone for that if that’s the next place where they go to. There are countermeasures and workarounds though. VPN, mesh networking, borrowing somebody else’s wifi or mobile data hotspot, finding open networks. Maybe we’ll get to the point where we need point to point links, pirate satellites, datajacking ourselves into communication lines, who knows.
But we’re not there yet. We’ll continue to develop more countermeasures as these sorts of hostile police surveillance state measures encroach on our freedom as it becomes necessary. You don’t have to let your identity be associated with anything beyond your ISP if you’re only using your ISP to get to somewhere you do trust with a VPN. If they block VPNs, then we will find other ways around the blocks. Are you familiar with I2P? If you aren’t, maybe you should get familiar with it. We already have plenty of ways of sneaking information into and out of even more totalitarian of states like China, Russia, at least until there’s an absolute shutdown like in Iran. You should also consider not living in a totalitarian country, and doing what you can to stop yours from becoming more totalitarian, because it’s only going to get harder the longer you let them do this. Give them your ID in exchange for internet access for now if you absolutely have to and can’t find any other option, but you might not absolutely have to, yet. And if you do have to, do it with caution: start learning and planning what you’re going to have to do after that and how you’re going to get very active in your resistance to being monitored and observed.
You sound like you’ve got a little bit of learned helplessness, but people in shitty, scary countries have been dealing with this for a long, long time. Yes, it sucks, but it’s not the end of freedom. You have to learn how to fight it.
As far as I’m aware, mesh networks don’t have the bandwidth for large data transfers. They can send packets of a thousand or so bytes tops, so even with compression you’d barely be able to send/receive anything.
You might be able to do SSH and run a few commands remotely, but with really high latency.
For a decentralized replacement for the modern internet, you would need major infrastructure like cables and/or cell towers and satellites.
Who says we need or are entitled to a decentralized replacement for the modern internet? Communication can be accomplished with much less, and necessity is the mother of invention. We managed to communicate quite effectively by having computers intermittently screeching at each other through a phone line for several decades. This discussion is about the modern internet being cut off while they try to identify and root out persecuted populations and dissidents against the regime. Nobody said it was going to be fun and you will still be able to freely watch all the youtube your bored brain can handle while streaming video games on another screen. If that’s your expectation, you might as well go sign up for the brownshirts right now.
Damn dude, you don’t have to get so defensive.
Who says we need or are entitled to a decentralized replacement for the modern internet?
This is a conversation about how to circumvent government surveillance and censorship. If you can’t see the connection to a need for decentralized internet structure, that’s on you.
Also, you said this:
I don’t have to worry about my ISP either because I live in a still-civilized country, but yeah, if they really lock it down at that level that’s going to be tough,
Wow, good for you, your government isn’t rapidly implementing a surveillance state like seemingly most of the world is right now. That’s not much of an argument for why other people don’t need decentralized communication, though. Check your freaking privilege at the door.
You also said this:
There are countermeasures and workarounds though. VPN, mesh networking, borrowing somebody else’s wifi or mobile data hotspot, finding open networks.
In case you didn’t know, mesh networking is decentralized communication. I merely pointed out that it isn’t robust enough at this time to fully replace an internet connection, meaning it would be impractical to implement the fediverse over one.
Furthermore, VPNs can increase anonymity, but they still rely on a connection to their servers. Which means, under the current infrastructure, that you’re still relying on your ISP. If the ISP decides to throttle all connections going through VPN servers, or if the government shuts down VPN servers, then you’re still fucked. So that’s not a workaround for the necessity of decentralized internet.
And, “borrowing somebody else’s wifi or mobile data hotspot, finding open networks” still means going through ISPs, and the point of “age verification” which we’re discussing is so that they can still identify you regardless. So that’s not a solution.
Lastly, you also said this:
Maybe we’ll get to the point where we need point to point links, pirate satellites, datajacking ourselves into communication lines, who knows.
In other words, you agree that there is a point which might necessitate decentralized internet infrastructure. Unless you fail to understand the topic entirely.
Communication can be accomplished with much less, and necessity is the mother of invention.
Yes, communication can be accomplished, but to what extent depends on your technological capabilities. Mesh radios work for simple text-based messaging with limited bandwidth. Ham radios work for voice. Both of which can be dangerous when a government is actively hostile to radio communications, but there are ways to minimize the risk.
But in the context of maintaining the fediverse when the government tries to eliminate anonymous web use, neither of those things are a replacement.
You might be able to extend a LAN-based intranet by daisychaining wifi receivers, but how far? It’ll probably be limited to a few houses or a neighborhood. It won’t enable global communication like the modern internet does.
You could pass around USBs to share wikipedia articles and similar databases, but there’s no real-time access/communication and this locks out anyone not in the “in-group,” so it’s not a full replacement either.
So in order to maintain the fediverse and anonymity, you still need some sort of internet infrastructure, which currently is dominated by ISPs and cell carriers. Which, if the government forces them to identify users through verification, will no longer be anonymous. Hence, the need for decentralized internet infrastructure.
We managed to communicate quite effectively by having computers intermittently screeching at each other through a phone line for several decades.
Okay, so you want to go back to using dial-up? Over landline? Is that what you’re proposing? Because even that goes through centralized carrier services which could easily be co-opted by an authoritarian government. Not a solution for the topic at hand.
This discussion is about the modern internet being cut off while they try to identify and root out persecuted populations and dissidents against the regime.
Get off your high horse. Yes, the discussion is about the modern internet being cut off. And you can’t see how that relates to necessitating a decentralized internet infrastructure to replace the one being locked down?
Those “persecuted populations and dissidents against the regime” can only benefit from a decentralized internet, and you’re throwing them out like some token virtue-signaling buzzwords to make yourself sound morally superior, when the argument you’re making actively hurts those people by making it easier for the government to root them out in the absence of decentralized communication infrastructure.
Nobody said it was going to be fun and you will still be able to freely watch all the youtube your bored brain can handle while streaming video games on another screen. If that’s your expectation, you might as well go sign up for the brownshirts right now
I can only assume this is projection on your part. Is the only use you can think of for a decentralized internet so you can watch youtube and stream video games? Really? Is your imagination that limited?
Funny that you should call me a brownshirt, when you’re the one who began your comment by questioning whether we’re even “entitled” to a decentralized internet. In the context of a discussion about the government’s assaults on anonymity. Do you not realize how fascist that sounds?
They can’t really do that or else their “Internet of Things” won’t function.
IoT can run on LAN, and anyone who uses it should be self-hosting.
That being said, most people just trade privacy for convenience by signing up for corporate services. And that gives the tech companies more leverage over those people because “upload your ID or else your alexa won’t work.”
Tech companies have no qualms with making your things non-functional unless you give in to their stipulations…
Ugh. That’s disgusting on a thousand levels. Even proposing such a bill should be considered a jailable violation of the constitution, as an example to the rest of the authoritarian bastards.
I mean, I agree with you, but this isn’t just a United States thing. China has had this since forever. They have something called a “social credit score”.
So if you litter, and cameras catch you littering, your social credit goes down. And you best believe they track and monitor every single online interaction.
The UK the past year has been really slamming hard on online verification.
This is a global thing that is seeping into the united states, but it’s by no means the only point of contention.
From what I understand, social credit score is mostly an invented bogeyman to demonize China in the west, and while many frightening “consequences” of low social credit score were imagined, none ever materialized and it was rarely even actually tracked. Yes, they could, in theory, but we imagine a massive level of administrative competence and effectiveness that I think serves both western interests and Chinese ones without necessarily being reality. As far as I can tell (granted, not very far as I’m not in China and haven’t been for a very long time) it actually had very little real impact in China itself and has already been mostly forgotten. China’s got lots of problems, but social credit score isn’t really part of any of them. They don’t need to have social credit score to genocide Uighurs. They didn’t need social credit score to massacre Tienanmen square. They don’t need social credit score to prepare the South China Sea for war and try to subvert Taiwan. They’ve got bigger fish to fry, and they’re frying them, and social credit score is a silly distraction that nobody there is taking seriously and neither should we.
Oh yeah, 1000%.
It really sucks seeing supposed democratic nations having this forced on them. I really hate how little people understand the implications in practice.
China’s “cameras up everyone’s nose” approach should be a sign of failure and a caution to the world, not permission for other governments to “catch up”. :(
Well, are you a blackjack dealer or a hooker?
For the right money, either!
I’m probably a better hooker. I feel like I’d just let you down as a blackjack dealer.
So, as far as sex goes, you WOULD give it up, and as a blackjack dealer you WOULD let me down…
Guys, I don’t think this is Rick Astley.
How about a regular dealer?
yea. I already have my own internet with blackjack ans hooker and don’t really much on anything else. I’ll be fine. But the vast majority of people will willingly rush into 1984 instead of throwing their shit devices away.
Oh that sweet scrolling rush…
Mesh net?
Over LoRa it’s useful for basic off-grid messaging, but the bandwidth is extremely limited.
A meshnet over the internet would have more bandwidth. Various things have been tried. I2P is a kind of logical meshnet over the internet.
Thanks, wondered about that vs. Tor!
Proton mail is garbage and they will betray you.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted.
Proton CEO praised a Trump admin. I prefer my net neutrality folks to not ever kiss the ring of any government.
Who is your email provider, Tuta? I keep flipflopping over trying to leave Gmail…
