• NM_Gringo@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Those data centers use more power than a medium size city and city scale amounts of water. No. Just no.

      • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 days ago

        Until some regulation is passed and enforced that they have to be closed loop, it’s cheaper for them to fuck up the local ecosystem by using evaporative cooling or local water sources as a heat sink.

          • Rothe@piefed.social
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            1 day ago

            Who cares? They still use the energy of a large city, all for profiting a handful of billionaire/trillionaire oligarchs.

            • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              You can believe that if you want. It is true for some (cough-Musk-cough), but not all.

              Our customers are often what are considered socially “good”, like medical research. Our company is employee-forward with extraordinary benefits of all kinds. The executives are very down-to-earth.

              • L7HM77@sh.itjust.works
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                1 hour ago

                Our customers are often what are considered socially “good”, like medical research.

                I feel like this right here is where discussion is breaking down.

                The arguments around data centers are interesting. I think, collectively and socially, we’re hitting a language barrier around it. Like “AI” is a marketing term, language to a standard nontechnical person is fuzzy around AI, LLM, and ML.

                On the surface, I’m pro data center. Astronomy, bio-med, weather prediction, the internet itself, better ML models and more compute has been a net benefit to all of society. But the current rush to build out? The holding companies building these won’t even say explicitly what the data centers are being built for, the news insinuates they’re for LLMs, but the local governments are under NDAs, and the general population aren’t allowed to know anything and have to vote with their gut.

                The opposition groups to data centers are split apart and can’t coordinate well, because they’re focusing on smaller facets of a larger problem. I think the general population has an intrinsic gut feeling that something is wrong, almost like 50 years of unpaid taxes is coming back to fuck everything over, but they don’t have the technical knowledge to put it into a concise reason why they feel the way they feel, and it just comes out as “they’re gonna drain out the entire Mississippi River.”

                • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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                  42 minutes ago

                  Yes. “AI” has become a catch-all for this current generation of GPU- based computing. The public doesn’t know or care about ML vs LLM vs VLM vs GenAI etc.

                  We can’t speak due to very harsh NDAs.

            • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              And yours is the “my asshole neighbor is black, so I hate all black people” defense.

              You have bought into the sensationalist outrage press about the worst offenders. Yes, they are bad. But as we don’t pass judgement based on news of a sensational crime in a quiet neighborhood, we need to rise above the media noise to see the entire picture.

                • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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                  48 minutes ago

                  The bulk of the industry agrees that Musk is doing all the wrongest possible things.

                  He is not the industry. He just gets the press attention.

                  Are all electric cars bad? No, just his.

              • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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                2 hours ago

                Yeah without telling us the companies’ name this has major ‘trust me bro’ energy.

                Edit: I get why you haven’t, I’m not saying you should doxx yourself.

                • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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                  50 minutes ago

                  My industry is ruled by trade secrets during this phase. That’s part of the explanation for the complete lack of pushback on the “bad press” we get. Thanks for understanding.

                  • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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                    9 minutes ago

                    Well, for what it’s worth, I hope your company actually does use AI sustainably. I’m reminded of some of the blockchain startups that were attempting to make genuine use of the technology outside of cryptocurrency. There are legitimate use cases for AI just like there are for blockchain tech.

            • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              I disagree.

              I see your viewpoint more like “I got mugged once by a dude with an accent so now I hate all foreigners”. The data centers I work with don’t fit your narrative. The bad actors are on our shitlist, too.

            • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              I do not. Not for modern society.

              Like to use credit cards? Online banking? eBay? All done in data centers.

              • XLE@piefed.social
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                2 hours ago

                We were talking about AI data centers, which you and I agreed don’t have to exist.

                Don’t Motte-and-Bailey me

                • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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                  52 minutes ago

                  Every CC company is now using advanced “AI” algorithms to approve transaction speed.

                  The current state of medical research requires “AI” systems to run the simulations.

                  What you see as “AI” is the leftover dregs of the capacity. Used for cat videos and the like. The current buildout is NOT being paid for by memesters. It is the folks that have finally found the real promise that the digital revolution has promised since the 70s. As an outsider, I do not blame you for being misinformed. But - as you would be open to learning how big science is done today if a particle physics researcher explained it - I would hope that you would be open to my lives experience.

      • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
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        2 days ago

        AFAIK most water gets used in construction, and constructing city-sized facilities uses a LOT of resources. Now guess which side gets favored if there’s a resource conflict between a datacenter and the local population.