Thanks.

It’s possible to have it entirely static and broker webrtc connections client-side, but I haven’t figured out a user experience that would make it “work”.

https://github.com/positive-intentions/chat/issues/6

it certainly gives more control over your own data, but (if you know what youre doing) from a cybersec perspective, it can help to reduce the “attack surface”. the current direction is to allow users the flexibility from a version provided from me hosted on aws s3 or host it yourself from open source code. additionally, you can host your own peerjs-server as used for brokering connections… by default it connects to the public instance of peerjs-server (so its easier for users to get startedt).

im aiming for flexibility in “getting started” from ready-to-go to selfhosting. it all depends on if a user knows what theyre doing.

For testing and demo purposes only. NOT to replace any other app you use.

Session, Signal, Simplex and countless more apps are better for privacy and security. I can only hope to get to that level on my project.

Selhosting and a vpn are optional depending on your use case; the app works with niether to help users try it out and get started. Like all secure messaging apps, its better to selfhost given the option.

I’ve put effort into how the app is working, but ultimately i dont think its appropiate for me to suggest this code is ready for your sensitive data when it hasnt been reviewed or audited.

group chat is still a work-in-progress, but it’ll work in a way where asymmetric and symmetric encryption keys are generated in javascript using cryptography tools provided by the browser of your choice.

when a connection is established over webrtc (which mandates encryption anyway), the asymmetric keys are exchanged using the diffie-helman technique.

the keys are persisted into browser storage (indexedDB) so in a future reconnection, new keys dont need to be rgenerated. if you connect to a “known-peer”, the keys can be used for a kind-of p2p authentication.

all the security here depends on the security of the connected devices involved. this approach is in contast to connecting to an api to authenticate and proxy encrypted messages.

for more info there may be related information/links here: https://positive-intentions.com/blog/security-privacy-authentication

That’s right. It’s using peerjs-server as the connection broker.

Thanks! That’s great to hear.

There’s sometimes a bug where you have to have to exchange that ID both ways.

There a lot of docs to read through so just in case you overlooked it, I hope the video on this page helps: https://positive-intentions.com/docs/basics/peers

If that doesn’t help, then it’s something I need to fix. I am aware of a few issues with connecting to people when not on the same network. Webrtc should still work, so I chalk it up to some bug I should prioritize.

Id be interested to hear about the experience of trying to connect with the file app. I added some changes to make things work better, if that works I may have an idea of how to fix it for the chat app.

the google stuff is only for the website. the apps have their own subdomains and CSP headers that block foreign scripts.

• https://file.positive-intentions.com/
• https://chat.positive-intentions.com/

(the direct links are found on the website footer under “links”)

the chat app is flexible in the ways it can be run as further described here: https://positive-intentions.com/blog/docker-ios-android-desktop. im trying things out with tauri and maybe some version hits the f-droid store at some point?

thanks! im playing around with the website to make the landing page experience more appealing. the apps themselves, are running inside an iframe.

the google stuff is only for the website. the apps have their own subdomains and CSP headers that block foreign scripts.

• https://file.positive-intentions.com/
• https://chat.positive-intentions.com/

(the direct links are found on the website footer under “links”)

the web version is intended to work on all platforms without compilation.

a html file-input is simple to add on a webpage. when selecting a file, its loaded into memory. at that point you can encrypt that file and sent it over webrtc… voila; p2p encrypted file transfer.

my approach to a mobile (ios/android) version is using capacitorjs/tauri… its basically a native wrapper with a webview.

P2p encrypted file sharing is sadly still an unsolved problem

thanks for your input, but can you explain what you mean by “unsolved problem”?.. p2p encrypted file transfer is demonstrated in the app.

its browser based. it uses webrtc to create p2p connections between browsers. concepts like authentication takes the form of using cryptography capabilities of a typical browser. the storage of data from messages to encryption keys are stored in indexedDB as provided by the browser of your choice. there is an emphesis on client-side browser-based capabilities in all parts of the app.

matrix is a good peer reviewed and generally reccommended solution. this project isnt intended to replace any existing solution. there are many other similar projects out there, but i notice there arent many presented as webapps. this is my attempt.

My app is different because the auth is handled between peers. So it could only every be people you shared your ID with. Security is important for me on this project. Its more important than the app being popular. https://www.reddit.com/r/CyberSecurityAdvice/comments/1ev5kqn/is_this_a_secure_messaging_app/

People should not connect to strangers on this app because of the potential risks of IP exposure… But between people you trust or between your own devices, it should work as expected for testing.

As for allowing links with expiration, you basically have that already with what looks like the login/logout functionality. There is no actual registration, it’s just a UI for creating and deleting crypto random ID profiles.

Lemmy and the fediverse is a good idea. The federation makes it so I can see Lemmy posts on mastodon. Etc… id like to draw a parallel in my app with the chat-view and the inteagram-view

I don’t think this kind of app could be an alternative to instagram because of it only being P2P with only people you know.

The app is using webRTC which exposes IP addresses, so you wouldn’t want something like a global feed on this.

Immich sounds interesting. I’d like to make time to check it out.

https://positive-intentions.com/blog/p2p-social-media

P2P allows for a fairly unexplored infrastructure for content moderation. In this app, the feed of images would only be from people you connect to. For people to connect to you, you have to share a crypto random id.

As a webapp you can clear the site data by logging out. Basically, people cannot randomly connect to you and share things you don’t like.

I won’t be adding anything like a global feed. Only content that you shared or received.

This doesn’t remove the risk of people sending you things you don’t like so I’m all ears for an approach to that. I didn’t make much progress on the following. If there are any hard features you think would help, let me know. I’d like to make some time to create a “block contact” but it’ll take time and consideration to do it properly (so I don’t expect it soon). Things like logging out and being able to backup your profile might be enough, but not as user-friendly as it could be.

https://www.reddit.com/r/darknetplan/comments/16qw24o/on_my_decentralized_chat_app_i_want_some_kind_of/

thanks! i’ll make a note of that to add. it looks reletively simple to implement in JS, i’ll need to check more about browser compatability. tls 1.3 is already in use. i otherwise have wording throughout that users must trust who they connect to.

as for browser extensions, there are CSP headers set to prevent them from accessing personal details.

impossible to update the software

considering the app amounts to a bunch of statics. they wint update themselves if you dont want it to. the app works in many different forms because all form factors can have nuanced security details. its better for security that if people have the ability to selfhost, then they also have the option to choose the form-factor they use based on their preferences.

All nice ideas! I’ll take a note. I’d like to make time to make it so on each initial connection it generates new keys too. This should be what I think is forward-secrecy. (Let me know if I’m wrong.)

I don’t know the specifics of VPN and it’s implication with webrtc, I tried testing and sharing my observations here. I’m open to advice here.

You asked about native builds… Tbh I don’t know much about it. I did a short search-engine search and these seem to be well regarded. (Currently?) As a pwa I have a lot of flexibility in the apps form-factor. I was thinking about how easy it would be to make it into a browser extension. (It’s not about it being useful, but just providing that extra option.)

I think for my app to be regarded well in security I think it’s important for people to use their own instances. The “live app” as I call it is an experimental proof of concept. I wondering about the idea that the app is run on your own forks, but occasionally sync from upstream. As it stands my app is too garbage for anyone to want a copy, but that should eliminate those concerns.

It’s also an offline first pwa. Right now it fetches the latest version, but I don’t see why I can’t create a toggle on the UI to not fetch if there is cache… Again the app is unstable and experimental. I’m working on fixes and improvements as I see it to make a better app. It’s a while away from being able to advocate selfhosting to users. But in theory it could address your concerns?

Many attack vectors still indeed exist. With P2P web tech it seems that this allows for an interesting approach and could help reduce the attack-surface. The app is available for iOS, android and desktop. Let me know if you have more concerns.

My bad. I noticed the ego sometimes inflates which seems to stem for naive confidence.

I have observed pitfalls of other apps like mine. In particular one called crypto cat. I’m sure I can’t ever be exhaustive enough in learning from other examples.

Reducing metadata is indeed the goal of security and I think I have it reduced to a level where I can exchange webrtc connection data over QR codes or plain text. The IP is exposed at this point but I think this can be further scrubbed with a VPN. Perhaps this is interesting for you. It the minimum example of establishing a webrtc connection with plain text. Not user friendly, but it work without a peer-broker service. In the app I’d like to frame this around exchanging data over QR code.

As for the bitcoin wallet thing, I would think so if it’s well tested and ironed out well. As long as I can facilitate the downloading of the data (for backup) and the data syncing between devices then it would be doing that without registering to any backend. There are countless examples of bitcoin exchanges collapsing and taking people’s assets. The same could be said with the quality of security provided by chat app providers.