The guys saying the top three things aren’t necessarily the same as those saying the bottom thing. But there is definitely some overlap. Which is depressing. Though, I mean is that really that surprising given the state of the world and how stupid the average person is?

The loneliness epidemic also effects women. We’re all more lonely and miserable these days. I think really men and women are alienated from each other in large numbers due to internet brain rot. And being too broke to do anything outside except like… go to a public park or a library or something.

The shitty rightwing politics comes after, the average person is too stupid to not get immediately sucked into manipulative rightwing grift when they’re painfully lonely.

I say this as I consume internet brain rot myself. Though at least its on Lemmy and not Tik Tok, Reddit, or Facebook, and its during work, not my free time.

Clearly impeaching him again will work this time guys. Just one more time guys, that’ll get him! /s

Microsoft’s Copilot funnily enough actually provides sources that it pulls from the internet if you ask it to.

You do understand that any USA person who does that would have to check their head for attitudes right?

Attitude as in instability or propensity to commit war crimes against MAGA people? I might fail that check admittedly.

Responsibility for society starts at young adulthood, which is a fuzzy line because it varies per person. Bizarre that you would try to dissociate being a member of a culture and society without acknowledging participation and maintenance and responsibility…

I’m not “trying to dissociate” anything of the sort. I’ve thought and read and debated about about the nature of human existence for an abnormally long time and what I’ve told you is simply a major piece of my current conclusions.

If anything I’m ravenously seeking out someone to convince me my ideas are wrong. Partly because when someone does that it to me it means my beliefs become just that much more refined and accurate. Not enough people are willing to challenge their own beliefs or actively engage in defending them. They attach their ideology to their very identity and react emotionally to counters to their beliefs. I don’t do that or respect that. My loyalty is to reality, not my sense of belonging or identity.

Another reason is a lot of my own beliefs about life and existence (and for instance the current political realities of the country I live in) are quite unpleasant and many of them I’d like to be rid of if I could find some counters convincing enough to break from them I’d honestly be relieved.

If anything my lack of dissociation is making me cripplingly depressed and angry and probably part of why I’m on track for a high blood pressure diagnosis.

but very “American.” It capitulates to authority.

I can assure you that my specific beliefs are not the norm for Americans. Most Americans do not have any desire to think deeply about their own ideology at all, and even those that talk of ideology often just embrace some well developed “counter cultural” identity and call it their ideology without much further analysis.

Its quite simple. The events reported on this post would not have happened if Kamala Harris had won the 2024 Presidential election.

If you disagree, you are either willfully stupid or malevolent and no one should listen to a word you say.

I think you believe I and other Canadians are saying no USA citizens should move to Canada. I have heard a few people mention this but it’s fringe.

I never thought this, you made it clear that wasn’t your belief. No worries here.

So it sounds like you are suggesting we should welcome those who hold us in contempt by hiding behind ideology. “Oh you’re just overreacting” say the US centrists.

I’m not fan of centrists, but I don’t think requiring people to be leftwing to enter Canada would be good.

So yes, perhaps we should be screening immigrants for their position on our pending invasion. I’m not asserting that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if security protocols are enacted at borders.

I actually kind of think that would be a reasonable thing to ask. But of course I’ll admit it’d be likely impossible to verify. You’d at least filter out the most brazen rightwing US patriots.

I’ll even go so far as to say that in some level of my own fleeting suicidal ideation, I’ve thought about joining the Canadian military on the front line. And I’d be lying if I did not fantasize a little about seeking revenge on my “excompatriots”… quite directly via such a route. Specifically of the MAGA variety.

I’d probably be a bit more Sherman-esque in my attitude.

These MAGA people… they are simply no longer people I’m interested in empathizing with at virtually any level. My hatred of them is at an intensity that is almost certainly irrational and self destructive.

I’d bet there are many other Americans that feel very similarly.

lol well statistically a large number of US immigrants do believe in original sin. However I am pointing out that it will be difficult for someone who was raised in a highly individualistic culture to take responsibility for the society they come from, and for the beliefs they carry forward. So yeah, if you come to Canada, and pretend we are just as individualistic as the USA, you’re going to feel like a hero around all these meek and diminished folk. And that has been happening my whole life, “americans” who move here and talk down while acting convivial and take over all the little ponds they swim in. It’s a type. Usually professional or middle class. Often they are “fleeing” the States… but not really. I grew up with an influx of draft dodgers, and yeah, they were welcomed, but there were problems, and here’s the thing: they are often oblivious to the fundamental cultural differences.

The amount of self reported individualism in Canada vs the US is virtually identical. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2004/01/14/americans-and-canadians/ (under “Values: Similarities and Differences”) this is an old survey, but I would be doubtful the numbers have meaningfully shifted since.

But this is besides a far more interesting point for me that I really hope you will engage with.

That is just a bizarre conservative attitude that works well for neo-aristocracy goals. It’s destructive to other societies and we wish you wouldn’t export that unwelcome shit in your media and migrants.

And here is the most interesting element of the conversation and I’ll admit its almost a tangent. That said, I’m disagreeing in good faith.

Its not an “attitude” it is factual. Before you were born, did you get some kind of “create a character” prompt? Of course not.

It is sheer pure reality: no one chooses to even be here or anywhere for that matter. That would make no sense.

Nonetheless, to support the pressure to conform and serve a society that arguably as a collective has a far more significant culpability for one’s non-consentual existence as an individual I find as a sort of absurdity. Individuals should respect each other, but they owe nothing to the society (or parents) that birthed them, if anything society (and parents) owe them an unpayable and infinite debt.

Of course, I also don’t believe in free will, and that in of itself complicates my thoughts on these matters.

My understanding is because of the way its worded that it could be generously interpreted by SCOTUS to favor Trump running as VP. I can’t remember the specifics but I remember reading such.

Technically, he could run as VP with the explicit plan to have the actual president step down as soon as they’re in.

But I don’t know if Trump would even be down for that. He just wants to run for a third term full stop.

Let me just state the obvious: They fired her due to the current US administration. She got harassed in the first place because of the current US administration.

Trump is effecting corporate decisions without even making in specific executive orders as well bolstering the common rightwing individual’s boldness in harassing people.

I apologize for the late response, I only use this account during breaks/lunch at work and I couldn’t help wanting to continue the conversation.

Your response tells me you have a ways to go before decolonizing your mind. First you must acknowledge your inadvertent participation in the bullshit.

I’m going to try some extra effort to internally translate what you probably mean and respond to that from both a personal and meta perspective starting with the personal if only to hear your thoughts on both and sate my curiosity:

On a personal level: I’d be willing to listen to any counter arguments of any ideological belief I hold. I thrive on challenging my own and other’s belief systems through discourse. Its a major reason why I spend time on Lemmy (and used to spend time on Reddit writing novelas in response to other novela sized posts). If one’s argument is compelling enough, I will change my views (and have had my views changed in the past via this very method.)

On a meta level: What I think would be unreasonable to expect of anyone is to tell them they must believe in anything in order to live somewhere outside of some very basic things. On a systemic level it would be authoritarian and draconian otherwise.

That said, if I were to interpret your words here less charitably, it sounds like almost like you are asking people to repent for the sin of having been born and raised in the US regardless in order to take refuge by going through a re-education program or something.

I keep seeing “don’t blame me” posts from USA folks who don’t want to take any responsibility for the society they live in… and they want to bring that attitude here!

Individuals are not responsible for the society they are born in and are raised in, regardless of context. People don’t even choose to be born in the first place, let alone where.

As a Canadian I would not move to Bolivia, because our mining companies are neocolonial blights on their economy… unless I could be clearly employed mitigating that colonialism.

Are you as a Canadian, directly responsible for the neocolonial blights in Bolivia because you are a Canadian citizen?

This is just anti-immigrant sentiment disguised as anti-colonization rhetoric.

That said, I am curious about your thoughts. What if one thinks culture itself is just window dressing and don’t care? People who identify as part of an in-group and hate the out-groups are insufferable, and being attached to a regional culture is just a form of that, cultivating hatred for the ‘other’.

Admittedly, I dislike the very region of the US I live in and think the culture here is a combination of intellectually vacuous, sexually puritanical/traditionalist, and generally boring nonsense. I view the individuals who attach themselves to my local culture as kind of pathetic. My feelings towards them somewhat mirror Emil Cioran’s negative view of his own countrymen. I have no desire to spread this culture, I’d like to escape it: I’m functionally culture-less as one can be.

I’ve just been chronically too broke to escape. The election has lowered the bar for what I’m willing to put up with in my escape, but unfortunately so have my resources been somewhat lowered, slowing me down.

Man I don’t exactly love two out of four of those genres myself, but this thread has a few commenters that seem to want to pretend they’re the adults in the room but in reality they’re just a bunch of miserable cunts that either hate music or only want to listen to the same fucking popular shit over and over.

Like, popular music is fine to be clear but so is wanting to listen to weirder stuff.

My understanding is the existing Jewish population was integrated into Israel.

Do you think that they’d displace other Jewish people if they were living there already? I’m pretty sure its the religious fanaticism fueling this.

I don’t think we’re ignoring that, so much as there is an overwhelming amount of bad shit to talk about stemming from this single incident.

And to be honest the bigger issue revealed here isn’t the failure to protect classified information or that they’re bombing Yemen (In a vacuum at least) right now but the fact that they are violating the law also by using an app that destroys documentation of their conversations. This has implications not only legally or militaristically but also that they know they want to do shit that would be illegal and evil enough that they don’t even want to use standard classified channels, not just bombing of Yemen but probably more future evil shit.

Vaush is confidently incorrect

On some things sure, hes confident about virtually everything he says. But I suspect what you think hes incorrect on and what I think hes incorrect on are different things. I even suspect you disagree with stances that aren’t even stances he actually holds.

I mean sure its a skill in that it is deliberate public relations craft.

No. Or at least I know Lonerbox isn’t.

And yet, I’ve given him clicks.

I thought you said you only watched clips of him? I assumed you meant by other creators.

All I can see is that I see a pretty clear method to the madness. There’s always an out, it’s always “you don’t understand the context.” It’s the same tactic Trump uses, and the same tactic used in countless ad campaigns.

Trump supporters don’t actually care about context though. They say that shit for propaganda purposes. Vaush supporters bring up context because he literally gets clipped out of context for oppositional propaganda purposes.

Also, there isn’t always an “out”. Some of the things Vaush has said/done are bad even with context. Like when he told his followers to go harass Contrapoints on Twitter once because he was upset with her and wanted to “Force her to see reason” or whatever. When he was unnecessarily nasty to TJ Kirk during some debate. Or when he flashed on screen AI generated and drawn porn of a canonically 16 year old character and bestiality.

There are a few other things I’m probably forgetting.

No, there’s lot’s of little niches that one can carve out, regardless of being left or right. There’s plenty of opportunists with supposedly left-leaning brands. The right-wing grifts and personality cults are more profitable, but it’s also a fairly saturated market with a lot of competition. There’s plenty of room for people like Destiny, Jimmy Dore, and Vaush to carve out their respective “left-leaning” niches.

Jimmy Dore is 100% vapid grift. Destiny is a terrible human being but he is also almost certainly not a grifter. He says what he means and means what he says.

Vaush is someone who is significantly egotistical, narcissistic, impulsive, and short sighted. But he is not a controversy-monger, on that front he is just a dumbass.

Vaush doesn’t debate other creators anymore. His controversies have accumulated to a point where he is essentially walled off from that for various reasons. Too many creator’s alienated and controversies fueling rhetorical weaknesses.

I’m not talking about debate really though. What I mean about his ideological honesty is that he is willing to anger his own audience, Hasan is very careful not to do that.