A country being invaded can be and will be overthrown if possible. In fact, it’s been done many times in European imperialist history.
That’s why the clause exists, even before democracy was normalized in Europe. Just find someone else in line for procession and install a puppet prince.
It’s even been abused. Some speculate that Trump would trigger martial law to stay in office - or even Netenyahu himself clinging to power.
In the end you don’t want a captured government. That’s also historically been really bad.
Well there’s already a shitload of doubt over the referendums that happened after Russia invaded. The doubt is especially bolstered by the fact that polling data suggested sentiment favored moving away from Russia when they all of a sudden show up, hold a vote in regions they fully control, and win with a wildly impractical something like 95%. It’s not even good lying. It’s “fuck you, what are you gonna do about it?” lying.
“Oh they asked people who had their democratic government couped by a hostile foreign power and had nazis installed that proceeded to ethnically cleanse them and take away their rights whether they wanted to stay part of that country”
And they didn’t want to?
“Yeah the only possible interpretation was they were brainwashed”
No, it was fake because polling data that was relatively recent to the election was in gross conflict with the results. Imagine you lived somewhere with a large expat American population. Imagine that polling specifically in the region full of American expats showed that the clear majority did NOT want to join the US and that the trend over time is for the sentiment to get STRONGER, not weaker. Now imagine the US invades, a referendum on secession and annexation by the US is held almost immediately, and the vote is exactly what the US wants, the people increasingly did NOT want, and they claimed the vote was 95% in their favor. You’d never buy that load of bullshit, but if Russia does it, and it’s perceived to be against The West…
Who collected this polling data? Have a link/source? From everything I’ve seen the east was firmly pro yanukovych and Crimea specifically formally petitioned for Russian intervension after the 2014 coup. And while the Donbass didn’t formally petition they literally went to war for the right to split away from Ukraine.
I’ll try to dig it back up later, having a bit of trouble finding it again because modern search is shit and heavily favors tangential at best recent events even with clear requests.
As for the vote and in Crimea, as I’ve been saying, there’s extremely reasonable doubt of authenticity given the vote was held after Russia seized the area. Russia held an election in which the result was what Russia wanted by margins in gross excess of what recent polling suggested the people actually wanted.
About Donbass, I don’t really remember the specifics at this moment, but I recall getting into it with someone about that topic a few weeks ago. If you wanna look back in my comment history probably 2-4 weeks, I found sources for the poll, various issues with the Crimean referendum, and some stuff on Donbass I don’t recall at the moment.
Read history, bro - instead of suckling at the feet of Putin. Martial law does not exclude democracy, as democracy is more than national elections and representative democracy (not that you’d know anything about that) - but a change in government can actively sabotage defences and weaken a nation to be overrun by a foreign agressor 👏 while 👏 the 👏 nation 👏 is 👏 being 👏 invaded.
But tell me how Maripol being leveled is somehow good for renovation plans.
What part of martial law do you not understand?
A country being invaded can be and will be overthrown if possible. In fact, it’s been done many times in European imperialist history.
That’s why the clause exists, even before democracy was normalized in Europe. Just find someone else in line for procession and install a puppet prince.
It’s even been abused. Some speculate that Trump would trigger martial law to stay in office - or even Netenyahu himself clinging to power.
In the end you don’t want a captured government. That’s also historically been really bad.
Ukrain already has a captured government. 😜
Letting democracy exist is bad because then the government might change hands.
Gotcha.
Because then the government might be corrupted and perverted by the active aggressor with massive incentive to do so.
Or at least that’s what the fascists will say if anyone votes against continuing the war
Well there’s already a shitload of doubt over the referendums that happened after Russia invaded. The doubt is especially bolstered by the fact that polling data suggested sentiment favored moving away from Russia when they all of a sudden show up, hold a vote in regions they fully control, and win with a wildly impractical something like 95%. It’s not even good lying. It’s “fuck you, what are you gonna do about it?” lying.
“it wasn’t close therefore it is fake”
Who was voting? What was the voting about?
“Oh they asked people who had their democratic government couped by a hostile foreign power and had nazis installed that proceeded to ethnically cleanse them and take away their rights whether they wanted to stay part of that country”
And they didn’t want to?
“Yeah the only possible interpretation was they were brainwashed”
No, it was fake because polling data that was relatively recent to the election was in gross conflict with the results. Imagine you lived somewhere with a large expat American population. Imagine that polling specifically in the region full of American expats showed that the clear majority did NOT want to join the US and that the trend over time is for the sentiment to get STRONGER, not weaker. Now imagine the US invades, a referendum on secession and annexation by the US is held almost immediately, and the vote is exactly what the US wants, the people increasingly did NOT want, and they claimed the vote was 95% in their favor. You’d never buy that load of bullshit, but if Russia does it, and it’s perceived to be against The West…
Who collected this polling data? Have a link/source? From everything I’ve seen the east was firmly pro yanukovych and Crimea specifically formally petitioned for Russian intervension after the 2014 coup. And while the Donbass didn’t formally petition they literally went to war for the right to split away from Ukraine.
I’ll try to dig it back up later, having a bit of trouble finding it again because modern search is shit and heavily favors tangential at best recent events even with clear requests.
As for the vote and in Crimea, as I’ve been saying, there’s extremely reasonable doubt of authenticity given the vote was held after Russia seized the area. Russia held an election in which the result was what Russia wanted by margins in gross excess of what recent polling suggested the people actually wanted.
About Donbass, I don’t really remember the specifics at this moment, but I recall getting into it with someone about that topic a few weeks ago. If you wanna look back in my comment history probably 2-4 weeks, I found sources for the poll, various issues with the Crimean referendum, and some stuff on Donbass I don’t recall at the moment.
Oh so imagine the opposite of the situation we’re talking about.
No.
Read history, bro - instead of suckling at the feet of Putin. Martial law does not exclude democracy, as democracy is more than national elections and representative democracy (not that you’d know anything about that) - but a change in government can actively sabotage defences and weaken a nation to be overrun by a foreign agressor 👏 while 👏 the 👏 nation 👏 is 👏 being 👏 invaded.
But tell me how Maripol being leveled is somehow good for renovation plans.
Go back to reddit
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Why is this comment formatted like an AI wrote it?
Because AI are glorified statistical models that steal all of histories texts and tries to replicate language using median and average?
EDIT: alt accounts for consistent -2 down votes is such Reddit behavior.
You joined lemmy last year lol
I’ve been jumping platforms for years. Sopuli is Scandinavian, which is why I joined it. But nice “gotcha”.
Back to Reddit with you.
Fucking dork
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